China Man ask, you want ISK?
Published on 23. Nov, 2008 ... written by Jacob Mei, Tags: Articles, Columns
by Jacob Mei …
This week I am talking about the most common problem we have in the MMO world, Gold Famers and sellers. I did a bit of research on this to determine where exactly the general community considers this sort of behavior falls into and most individual feel that it falls into the area of cheating.
In EVE we have something called Macro Miners or ISK Farmers, though both achive the same thing the former uses a program to perform its tasks, such as targeting an asteroid, activating the beam, releasing a jetcan for the ore, and resetting when the asteroid is popped. At some point either a player or another bot arrives in an industrial to collect the ore and leaves to drop it off at a station only to repeat the process. The ladder however, can be described as a sweat shop situation. Some countries, such as China and North Korea have entire companys setup with children at computers for eight hours a day playing the game, typically either mining or doing missions in CNRs (Interesting tidbit about CNR’s later in this article).
The How:
For bots it’s relatively simple. A player sets up several accounts to perform actions in game that will make money for him while he is not actually at the computer or actively watching the game. I recommend watching this video from Markeedragon from Shattered Crystal where he interviews a gold farmer, in which both he and the farmer goes into detail over how lucrative it is for them to do this, namely in WOW (again, that word, I feel dirty, shower time!). See it here (note I don’t actually support this sort of thing but thought it might be interesting).
For farmers, it’s more complicated, and moral dilemmas come into play. The thing about China, North Korea and so forth the laws of child labor are different or non-existent. As a result, instead of a child in school learning or playing with friends, you have them sitting at the computer for eight-hour-days. Think about that for a moment, playing a game for eight hours a day doing nothing but missions.
The thing is, you can’t tell who is using what. You may buy ISK from a bot user, or you may buy from one who uses child labor. If the latter, your purchase is in support of child labor.
The Why:
It boils down to players just not wanting to spend the time themselves to get the ISK or goods but have a surplus of cash on hand. As a result, demand for the service starts and before you know it, people are getting ISK for money.
Why you shouldn’t:
You may ask what the big deal is. After all, it’s your money, you should be allowed to spend it as you set fit right? The deal is that:<
- You may be supporting Child Labor.
- The money may be going to those using Child Labor.
- Its not fair to players who put in the work as the game intended
- It’s a breach of intellectual property laws (games are considered property, by someone selling you something from in game with real money you are essentially receiving stolen goods)
Another, rather good reason you shouldn’t is the approach CCP has taken. The first is ETC codes. These codes can be bought for real money and then sold to other players for ISK legally. Though some may ask what is the difference in terms of the games economy the facts are that the money goes to CCP and not a potential child labor user, the money is gathered for those looking to get, to them, free time to play the game, and generally the prices are controlled by the community.
The second thing CCP has in place is, rather comical for those who hear about it, is that CCP monitors the ISK transactions of known sellers. When they see someone has made a purchase they go in and take the money back, should someone use that money they will give you a negative balance, meaning your in the red and spent however much real currency for basically asking CCP to take your ISK away.
The final reason you shouldn’t is that for some time, several gold seller sites have been putting keyloggers into their customer computers. As a result, not only have you given these criminals your CC information but also your username and password. Imagine what would happen if a CEO or someone with hanger access to an alliance bought some ISK only for the site owners to go in and clean not only him, but the corporation and alliance out?
Lets wrap this up:
Earlier I said I had some interesting info about CNRs (Caldari Navy Ravens). According to several pirate and low sec runner friends of mine, it would appear that CNRs are typically left floating in space.
The reason for this is twofold. When you consider that a child labor using company is likely going 23/7 they likely have their employees share the ships to cut down on costs. When one farmer logs off he ejects from the ship in a deep safe for another farmer to come and use it.
The second reason is that should CCP ban the account when it is logged off, because the actual money making ship is in space and unmanned, therefore up for grabs, it cannot actually be removed unless the GM or CCP does it themselves. Because it seems to be a common practice it is likely that CCP does not do this often enough, which likely explains why account thieves go after the stuff in your hanger and not just your wallet (deploying it in GSC’s in space until they can move it elsewhere).
If you see a CNR just floating there in space, do the community a favor and grab it. Not only did you just get yourself a nice bonus but you put the dent in some S.O.B’s child labor operation. Granted not enough to hurt him but enough to annoy him.
This wraps up my little pair of criminal articles. While it is unfortunate that such things are a part of our way of gaming, by avoiding those back alley dealers you will generally keep your nose clean for the most part.
12 Responses to “China Man ask, you want ISK?”
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Silene Derbhan
24. Nov, 2008
Honest players will of course feel cheated when anybody can gain huge amounts of cash, or ships, with just a clik on a website. However, it is nice to emphasize the “dirty” side of the story, be it child labor or possible account theft.
And I didn’t know that CCP could “steal” your money !!! Good move guys.
Ecaf
24. Nov, 2008
I have a friend in EVE who bought ISK from a shady source and CCP took it away after it had been spent resulting in a negative balance to tune of close to a billion isk. Its more of a pain than you can imagine – as well as not being able to buy anything, you cannot set up contracts because of the charge, put up sell orders because of the broker fee (forcing you to accept the prices on existing buy orders), put up manufacturing or research jobs, repair ships in station, convo anyone with the cspa charge on, set up a jump clone, upgrade your medical clone or dock at player owned stations if there is a docking fee.
TEM
24. Nov, 2008
You are trying to connect child labor support to macroing/gold farming?
You know what, I’ve done as much research into it as you have and I say that given what state some Chinese families are in that it’s a GOOD thing that kids can get on a computer for “8 hours every day”, no, you know what?? your article just smacks of amature journalism, assumptions and most of all, your opinion.
Do you really think a company that enslaves kids to play a video is going to have eight hour days? COME ON. You did not do enough homework.
Given the choice of my kid doing other things to put food in their mouths, playing Eve is a freaking GOD SEND.
SUPPORT THEM!
Jacob Mei
25. Nov, 2008
To TEM:
1. your stance that child labor is a good thing to support families is a moot (and disturbing) point when CCP flat out punishes players by removing not only the bought isk but if they spent it already put them in the red to boot, not to mention the fact that several gold seller sites have been found to plant key loggers into their customers to then take the isk, and everything else in your assets, back. Seeing as you claim to have done as much research into the subject as I have you already knew that.
2. As I said in my article there is no way to tell where the virtual currency has come from, be it child labor companies operating in china, Korea, etc or someone running a program to automatically mine an asteroid or kill a rat.
If you want to support struggling families in China and elsewhere there are plenty of ways you can do so that don’t require you to go against CCP’s EULA, TOS and give obvious crooks your credit card information.
cincannatus
25. Nov, 2008
Excellent article jacob.
It’s intriguing about the CNRs. What personally puzzles me is when i see people who are blatantly isk farmers. Let me give you an example. They have only ever had 1 agent (the tutorial agent). Now thats not that unusual, but this part is. Not only have they only had one agent, but only two factions even have negative ratings with them. These are the two pirate factions were the player is based. They will also of course be in NPC corps, have minimal security ratings and be doing something really REALLY obvious, like hauling garbage around or mining ice 23/7. Another example of this is when i see synchronized CNRs formation flying outside mission hubs with weird names like dfhhraeher.
Now too mee, these things are obvious. What really puzzles me is why CCP doesnt design a program to root out characters such as this, and either summarily ban them, or rather send them evemails asking them a few questions. it would clamp down on things rather quick. go to any part of low sec and the residents tehre will be able to name u the macrofarmers. But they never get banned….why?
Flavan
25. Nov, 2008
Cincannatus,
The farming goes on with CCP approval. Because it’s quite simple for them to make some small modifications to stop it. But they don’t. Hence – approval.
Jacob, TEM does have a point in that your article could be better. For one, you seem to be saying the primary reason to not support this trade is the welfare issues. Yet I’m sure most pod pilots wouldn’t think twice about buying pirate DVDs or buying cheap clothes produced in third world sweat shops.
I agree that farmers should be stopped. But those who buy from them are hardly going to stop because they should be nicer to the farmer’s children.
Main Target
26. Nov, 2008
“But they never get banned….why?” – cincannatus
Answer: RMT is against EULA, and so is a ban-able offense. Running macros (i.e. not hotkeys) is against EULA, and so is a ban-able offense. Farming is in no way illegal a la EULA, so CCP does not stop it. Simple as that. But, making money, in whichever non-exploit way (i.e. non macro) is not. Also, you can’t just pin all the obvious farmers as “macro farmers”, because they usually aren’t.
“Some countries, such as China and North Korea have entire companys setup with children at computers for eight hours a day playing the game, typically either mining or doing missions in CNRs” – OP
This statement right here, as TEM said, “smacks of … assumptions and most of all, your opinion.”
The people hired in said countries to farm gold in MMO’s tend to be teens around the age of high-schoolers to college students. They are given not only pay, but food, shelter, clothing, etc. The only thing that you could say here is that whether their salaries are below “minimum wage”, if a “minimum wage” even exists, is questionable. These teens (and often slightly older people) are usually those without the ability to attend school/have flunked out. Now, even in a country with 1.4 billion people, there aren’t enough McGlutton and Walmart jobs to go around, and in the end (benefits included) they pay barely better than these gold farming jobs anyway.
And what exactly is stopping you from pointing out mid/old aged men who force their kids to do things for hours a day so he can reap the monetary benefits, and then wastes it on things like alcohol? Nothing. But that’s child labor too, and happens here in the Western countries. In fact, I’ve heard quite a few stories about that. But no. Child labor obviously belongs in the East. You’re pretty damn close to racism Jacob Mei, so TREAD LIGHTLY.
However, your comments about CCP’s smackdown on ISK buyers, and about securities issues, are spot-on.
“SUPPORT THEM!” – TEM
Child Labor = bad
Donate to UNICEF instead.
Jacob Mei
26. Nov, 2008
I admit that in retrospect I should have reconsidered the piece about linking child labor to the companies that employ individuals to farm goods that can be sold that can be turned into their product (isk) and all I can promise is that in the future I will endeavor to avoid making such statements again. I apologize to any readers that I have offended and hope that this misstep on my part has not colored your view of eve-mag.
Main Target
26. Nov, 2008
Ah, not to worry Jacob (and please, not so diplomatic) ;P
I just got a bit worked up, but it’s okay.
yay.
“all I can promise is that in the future I will endeavor to avoid making such statements again”
<3 EVE-mag.
And lookin’ forward to yer next article.
Gentlewind
26. Nov, 2008
The odds are better that the next t-shirt you buy was made by child labor over the isk you purchase. Its just a matter of numbers.
You need to remember that in many countries, China for example, an 18 year old boy who can’t afford to go to college can either work at the local hot pot restaurant or hussle virtual gold/isk. The pay is about the same for both jobs but one is indoors and air conditioned.
Or put it another way – if you were offered to play Eve for the same amount per hour as your current job – wouldn’t you take it?
The idea of banning the sale and trade of virtual currency is the stuff of stuffy old men who have no vision. Things evolve and you can either evolve with them or bang your head against the wall and scream, ‘you’re not going to ruin my game!!!’
Bert
02. Dec, 2008
“China and North Korea have entire companys setup with children at computers for eight hours a day”. Sounds like heaven. I suspect like most clothing sweatshops the hours are double that or more. Having said that both China and North Korea have mandatory schooling and so 8 hours after school might be realistic.
Ulrick Storm
02. Dec, 2008
For months I have been picking off CNR’s in deep space using my main (Ulrick Storm) and my covops pilot alt. Since this article my money making capabilities have drastically been cut.
I hit ISK Farmers were it hurts…in the wallet.